'85 Mustang GT question - OT

[sargentrs]

I know this may be a little off track but you guys are the most trustworthy and knowledgeable people I know. My step son's '85 Mustang GT is having electrical issues, I think. He's had her 2 years without any problems. Replaced the water pump and thermostat a few weeks back and haven't gotten her running yet due to some random electrical problem. She's a pretty basic 302 GT, 5 spd, 4 bbl with headers. Here's the deal. Went to start her back up and she fired right up. Took her for a test drive and she ran great. Pulled it back in the garage to recheck fluids and for leaks and everything looked good. Hit the key and the starter dragged bad and finally wouldn't even turn over after a few seconds. Check the battery and had good volts. Jumped it off and it fired right up. Killed it and the starter dragged again. Put the battery out of the truck in it and it fired right up. Killed it and the starter dragged again. Put the battery back in the truck and the bump fired right up. Replaced the ground cable on the mustang and it started right up, killed it and the starter dragged. It was getting way too hot. Replaced the starter and it fired up. Took it for a run and killed it and the starter dragged down. Jumped it back off and it fired up and took to Advance Auto and had the battery and alternator tested. Everything checked good. Between each crank and run let it cool down a little. So far we've replaced the solenoid, battery ground cable and starter. Each time we have the same results. Good for one start and then the starter drags. I'm thinking it's a grounding issue. Before we go randomly replacing any more parts, I thought I'd ask for some diagnostics advice. Something's pulling down the cranking amps when she's warm. Seems to be better when she's cooled down and the battery's fresh. Any advice/suggestions?

[fordman]

does it have long tube headers? is that making the starter hot? i am thinking ignition switch is in the column so wiggling the switch probably wont do anything. the actual ignition switch is probably under the dash on top of the column. i am guessing on that. also i think the ground on the battery has a enigne ground and a body ground coming off of it. it it is loose in either connection it could have problems.

[sargentrs]

Yeah, long tube. That's what I was thinking too. Been running fine for a couple of years but we don't know what kind of starter the PO put on it to start with. I was going to wrap the starter with a heat shield just for good measure. The battery cable only had the one ground to the block on it. I was going to check the block to firewall ground next. Didn't think about the ignition switch. I think he's had some issues with it recently. Thanks for the tip!

[Thunderfoot]

It almost sounds like the advance in the distributor is sticking or the timing is advanced to much, have you checked the timing?

[sargentrs]

Yeah, nailed it 1st thing. Set initial at around 10* and revved it to 2500 rpm then tweaked it until it hit 35+ total timing. She actually runs a LOT better than before we replaced the water pump and thermostat. I'm pretty comfortable with the timing and once you start it with a freshly charged battery, it runs like the proverbial scalded dog. A friend of mine recommended the "manual ammeter" test. Turn the key and touch connections until you burn your finger and find out where it's pulling extra current My digital voltmeter's giving screwy readings so I'm going to pick up a new one this weekend so I can check voltage drop and such. Back to work this week so it'll wait till Saturday when he can come over and do the manual labor himself. Gotta learn sometime!

[crazyhorse]

I know this may be a little off track but you guys are the most trustworthy and knowledgeable people I know. My step son's '85 Mustang GT is having electrical issues, I think. He's had her 2 years without any problems. Replaced the water pump and thermostat a few weeks back and haven't gotten her running yet due to some random electrical problem. She's a pretty basic 302 GT, 5 spd, 4 bbl with headers. Here's the deal. Went to start her back up and she fired right up. Took her for a test drive and she ran great. Pulled it back in the garage to recheck fluids and for leaks and everything looked good. Hit the key and the starter dragged bad and finally wouldn't even turn over after a few seconds. Check the battery and had good volts. Jumped it off and it fired right up. Killed it and the starter dragged again. Put the battery out of the truck in it and it fired right up. Killed it and the starter dragged again. Put the battery back in the truck and the bump fired right up. Replaced the ground cable on the mustang and it started right up, killed it and the starter dragged. It was getting way too hot. Replaced the starter and it fired up. Took it for a run and killed it and the starter dragged down. Jumped it back off and it fired up and took to Advance Auto and had the battery and alternator tested. Everything checked good. Between each crank and run let it cool down a little. So far we've replaced the solenoid, battery ground cable and starter. Each time we have the same results. Good for one start and then the starter drags. I'm thinking it's a grounding issue. Before we go randomly replacing any more parts, I thought I'd ask for some diagnostics advice. Something's pulling down the cranking amps when she's warm. Seems to be better when she's cooled down and the battery's fresh. Any advice/suggestions?

What is causing it to get too hot? Could it be from the thermostat? Maybe installed backward or too high temperature?
Also is this a correct water pump/same direction for a 85 Mustang? If it started good before the longtube headers probably not the cause.

I've had a 84 GT & a 85GT both with longtube headers & no problems with the starting. Make sure ALL THE GROUNDS ARE MAKING GOOD CONTACT & ARE TIGHT. Make sure the belt is installed correct route. IF I recall corectly the timing should be 12 -14 degrees with vacuum removed.This is just some thoughts ,hope you get it fixed .
Let us know how you come out .

[sargentrs]

I meant to say the starter was getting way too hot. Yeah, initial timing wound up around the 12* mark to get the 35+ total timing. I feel pretty sure it's a grounding issue. Gonna try some things this weekend. Thanks for the input!

[crazyhorse]

How did you come out on this?
Thanks.

[sargentrs]

Still no joy. We're only able to work on it on Saturday and Sunday PM and he's been tied up the last couple of weekends. I'm not fixing it, or paying for parts, he wants it fixed, he can come over here and help me work on it. How else are they going to learn, huh? Anyway, already eliminated battery, solenoid, ground cable and alternator. Replaced the starter but it could be bad again, maybe. Getting bad voltage drop at starter cable on solenoid end when you hit the key. Take the cable loose and check voltage at solenoid terminal, hit the key, and you get 12v. So I'm thinking the cable's bad, or maybe the connection on the starter, or ground at starter to bell housing. Make sense?