Weird power loss.

[6Delta]

Is there any reason a bad starter would cause the entire electrical system to go out? A few days ago my F250 360/C6 Camper Special, Sport Custom) didn’t start. Just 1 click at the solenoid then everything went dead. I figured a bad connection so I cleaned the battery terminals (Optima Red Top holding 12.6 volts steady). Nothing. 1 click and everything dead. No lights nothing. Did it all again got in and she started right up. Fires as soon as she turns over. I went about my business for about 4-5 days and must have started her a dozen or more times.

This morning 1 click. Did the same things as before but nothing helped so I Took my motorcycle to get to work. This evening I replaced the solenoid, bypassed the neutral switch (it needed adjusted as I have had to pull up on the shifter to start so I figured maybe a bad switch. Red wires with blue stripe.) and cleaned all connections. I have a separate ground wires from the engine, the body and the frame to the battery. Still nothing. I have full power to the cab, headlights, and wipers (no radio). When I turn the starter switch, 1 click and everything is dead. No headlights, wipers or dome light. If I mess with either battery connection all the power comes back. I cannot jump the starter directly with another battery because the headers are to close to the damn thing. I will try to figure out a way to get to it when I have a little more time. However I replaced the starter last year and she turns over great. I have been driving her at least 4-5 times a week since then. Unless the Bendix isn’t getting engaged I don’t think it is bad and anyway why do I lose all power. I have never had a bad starter cause my headlights to go out until I removed and replaced a cable. Any thoughts?

[Ranchero50]

Click and dead is a sign your terminals are still losing connection. If you jump the solenoid you should see a puff of smoke at the offending one. I clean the bejesus out of mine and then put some heavy grease on the terminal before installing the wire and that has kept the corrosion at bay for years. I did the same thing to all the high amp wiring in the truck and haven't had a problem since.

[6Delta]

I have sanded all the power side connections (except the one on the starter) and all but the ground to the block (but I do have continuity between all the right places) and the battery terminals do not get warm at all. I figured I will get to the remaining ground and the starter connection tomorrow and I can try to run a jumper cable from the block to the battery as well. I may still have a bad cable that shows continuity but doesn't handle the load. The cable from the solenoid to the starter is pretty long (I made it out of a piece of a jumper cable) to keep it away from the headers but it still gets hot. I worry that it is the starter because I cannot hot wire it. (I do get one small spark when I jump from the power side to the start terminal on the solenoid but nothing at any other place. Not even when I jump across the solenoid completely. Although I cannot replace the starter because of the headers I can get it away from the block. Also I still find it odd that the headlights are real bright until I hit the starter then no power at all until I disconnect one or the other battery cables. Then they are bright again. I would have thought the separate wire grounding the frame to the battery would have kept that circuit hot.

[sargentrs]

Try the "redneck resistance test". Try to crank it for a few seconds and then quickly feel all of the cables and terminal ends. The one that is hot to the touch is the offending connection. To be more scientific, use a volt meter and test for 12v at every connection. Clamp your negative lead to the - post of the battery. Touch the positive lead to the + post of the battery. Got 12v? Try to crank it with the voltmeter still on the battery. Big voltage drop? Move the positive lead to the other end of the cable. Got 12v? Move the lead to the far terminal of the solenoid. Turn the key to start and check for 12v. Got 12v? Move the lead to the end of the cable at the starter. Got 12v? Move the lead to the "S" terminal on the solenoid and turn the key to start? Got 12v? Somewhere in that chain you should see the voltage drop. That'll be the weak link in the chain.

[6Delta]

I did the "redneck test" 1st. Nothing was even warm. I am going to go over all the connections again tomorrow. What I don't get is the headlights, dome lights, etc. losing power. I could pull the starter out, disconnect that side of the solenoid and should have headlights right? I have a separate ground wire from the body to the battery. That is the one part that keeps getting in my head as something I am missing. I have had bad solenoids and starters as well as a bad ground to the block before. Even the power wire to the starter could be making a bad connection but why does the rest of my pickup lose power until I loosen and tighten the battery cable? My horn quit working a while ago but I believe that to be a problem either with my new rag joint or with with my column sliding down since the turn signals don't cancel either (about 1/4 gap between the steering wheel and the column).

[meteor545]

has the ignition switch gone bad?

[6Delta]

That crossed my mind as well but I cannot hot wire it, bypassing the ignition switch either. I replaced the switch about 1 1/2 years ago while redoing the PO wiring and replacing the turn signal harness.. One thing that scares me is getting bad (or crappy) parts right out of the box. I usually go with Echlin because they had a good history but now I don't know. Everything is made in China. It sucks to be hoping your part was made in Mexico.

[Ranchero50]

Also I still find it odd that the headlights are real bright until I hit the starter then no power at all until I disconnect one or the other battery cables. Then they are bright again. I would have thought the separate wire grounding the frame to the battery would have kept that circuit hot.

You keep answering your own question... For shits and giggles, when the lights go out use your meter and check voltage between the battery terminal and the cable. You will find the problem with a meter when it's in a fault condition.

Sea story time: Many moons ago we were on a family vacation to the coast and the wifes '92 Explorer died on Assateague Island as a hurricane was brewing up the coat. Neither of the two gear starters I bought would get it going. Ever change a starter while getting sand blasted? It sucks... Once I ripped the cover off the cable I found that it should have been hot at the battery end and eventually found that the big cable had flash corroded inside the molded terminal. The small cable that powered the truck was OK. I stabbed the big one at the terminal with a pocket knife and the truck fired right up.

[6Delta]

Thanks Ranchero50. I did what you said and this time only checked the cable ends for continuity after it clicked. The battery ground clamp was not good. When I tested both the chassis and the block to just the clamp nothing. To the battery terminal and the block everything came back and I had continuity again. I started pulling all the cables and double cleaning each end. I replaced the cable and still click. I put my old solenoid back on and she started. Running to the battery must have provided just enough juice to make a weak connection the showed continuity.
So 1 bad cable shorting inside somewhere and then a bad new solenoid. I guess my extra cable to the chassis wasn't connecting well at the chassis. It looked kind of rusty so that is why my headlights were going out. I guess the first time I cleaned everything I must have moved the cable enough so that the wires inside made a connection that lasted for quite a while. Once it started I stopped cleaning the other cables at both ends. I think I will run a ground between the sides of the rag joint and a better cable from the chassis to the engine. I still need to fix my horn.

[Ranchero50]

Cool that you got it going. My horn doesn't work either thanks to bad grounding in the column.