No Spark and a backwards distributor..wat?

[Gonezo]

After replacing the steering gear of my 69' F250 camper special with a red head steering gear (fantastic thing, but the bendix unit is the most expensive item in their inventory at $575 after core ) she drove like a champ. Went to a friends for a BBQ on a Saturday and drove home running strong and steering like a top heavy Ferrari.
Sunday worked on the 71' super beetle and needed to move the f250. Attempted to fire up the 390 powerhouse and would not fire. Turned around the beetle inside the garage (didn't think possible but beetle turning radius FTW) and began to troubleshoot.
Its Thursday now and after replacing the Coil, Condenser, Rotor, improving two grounds (one to starter one to motor) and replacing the Cap. Still no spark.
At two points during troubleshooting (before new parts), when the number 5 plug was out, a spark was produced in the instance the key was returned to off.
When swapping over to the new cap, I discovered No.1 wire was not at the No.1 cap location, it was 180 degrees out.
WAT the funk?! How was this truck running so strongly? Why would a cap have all connections 180 degrees out; someone funked up a cam install and now everything needs to be 180 out? Could the Pertronix unit installed create this no spark condition?
I think next i'm going to go through the wiring diagram of the pertronix system and ensure i'm alright but again, the truck was strong satruday, and no spark sunday or since, EXCEPT, when returning the key to off. Fuel is there and there has been no history of this in the last half year since I've bought her.
Any help appreciated and comments of "WTF" will be agreed with...

[cep62]

Is there power to the +coil terminal with the key on?
If not it could be the resistor wire from the switch to the coil or the switch itself.

You can temporarily hook up a jumper from the battery to the coil.
BE CAREFUL be cause if it starts you can't shut off without pulling the wire.

another thing that can happen is after repeated failed starts your plugs can be fouled and /or the gas can wash the oil off the cylinders so there's no compression.

[1972hiboy]

you sure you had no. 1 on the compression stroke? if it was at the top of the intake stroke the rotor would be 180 from the no 1 terminal.

[Gonezo]

you sure you had no. 1 on the compression stroke? if it was at the top of the intake stroke the rotor would be 180 from the no 1 terminal.

No.1 wire and plug were connected to the distributor 180 out from the labeled No.1 location on the old distributor. After the replacement i have hooked them up in the firing order i have found 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and correctly to the labeled No.1 mark.

Is there power to the +coil terminal with the key on?
If not it could be the resistor wire from the switch to the coil or the switch itself.

You can temporarily hook up a jumper from the battery to the coil.
BE CAREFUL be cause if it starts you can't shut off without pulling the wire.

another thing that can happen is after repeated failed starts your plugs can be fouled and /or the gas can wash the oil off the cylinders so there's no compression.

Yes power reached the + key "on"

If i jump to create life, what will it prove? that the resistor wire is the fault and must be replaced? Or that the relay may be at fault?

I fully expect it to run like crap with the now correct firing order, but if it doesnt, i may have had a saboteur in the night? I'm so confused by the previous distributor wiring, i feel like i may need to re-wire this new set-up to 180 out. A friend has speculated that the Cam could have been installed 180 out of the correct timing mark but then wouldnt the crank and running gear have had to have been also?!

[1972hiboy]

I understand, sorry I was quickly going over your post yesterday. Technically you can drop the distributor in any way you want and clock it anyway you want and any terminal can be no. 1 cylinder as long as the firing order is followed and the rotor is re-clocked to match where no 1 is now located. the no.1 is stamped on the distirbutor cap to help keep everybody uniform. so your firing order on the cap was probably right for your engine and the fault is laying in a componet. you said you have pertronix? have you checked for 12v at the Positive terminal of the coil with the key in the on position? if you do its most likely the pert unit itself of a coil. your timing was probably setup to be that way by somebody in the past.

ok, was re-reading your post. you said you swapped out the condenser but you have a pert unit? you shouldnt have both, the pert unit replaced the breaker points and condenser, you already swapped out a coil, sounds like you need to grab your multimeter and follow the trail of power. start at your coil positive terminal and see what you have there with the key on. if no power there, then the problem is on the truck side. if you have power there its either a defective coil or its in the distributor.

[Gonezo]

There is a relay (orange and purple wire leading to positive of coil, grounded, and fed from positive side of the solenoid) downstream of the coil, is this necessary for the Pertronix system?

Key on - 12v at the positive of the coil and at the end of the coil's wire leading to cap. So the NEW cap sees 12v. I'll reset the firing order 180 out and see what happens.

[Gonezo]

Voltage drops to 10.5v during starting, is this enough to create a spark?

[Gonezo]

There is a relay (orange and purple wire leading to positive of coil, grounded, and fed from positive side of the solenoid) downstream of the coil, is this necessary for the Pertronix system?

Key on - 12v at the positive of the coil and at the end of the coil's wire leading to cap. So the NEW cap sees 12v. I'll reset the firing order 180 out and see what happens.

Clearly says Pertronix right on it... Can feel it click with ignition on, so not that.

Also I'm getting sparks now, still not firing, and only one it seems? All the plugs I've pulled and jumped to ground and watched while turning over only yield one spark

[Gonezo]

Vid of No.4 plug out and grounded

http://youtu.be/Yi0dt38yMR0

Edit: No. 3 had four sparks but in a strange order, then none.

[Gonezo]

She runs!!

The rotor Napa have me was slightly shorter than the previously installed.

The timing is not 180 out, it is 180 plus one. Took a few backfires to figure this out.

She shuddered her way to a steady idle so I assume this was the dry cylinders I was warned about combined with being a little flooded I'm sure. But she's strong again and going to take us for beer and wood fired pizza!

[cep62]

[Gonezo]

Shes dead again. 12v at the coil and tested voltage at No1 and No2 plug end of wires and no spikes in voltage or anything. Could this be the pertronix unit? I checked the gap (sat) and cleaned the magnet and still nothing.

[1972hiboy]

hmm, the pertonix is just a breaker switch. if you unhook the leads off the coil and hook them up to your multimeter set to check continuity, you should be able to crank the engine and see that switch breaking continuity on the meter. or if your in doubt they are inexpensive enough just throw a new one in and retest.

[cep62]

Can you put a set of points and condenser in it ?

[Gonezo]

Can you put a set of points and condenser in it ?

I'm going to try tomorrow, we shall see, have any good tech write ups on points? will be my first time